Page - 907 - in The Complete Plato

PROTARCHUS: How? SOCRATES: To them we will say: ‘Good; but are we, or living things in general, always conscious of what happens to us—for example, of our growth, or the like? Are we not, on the contrary, almost wholly unconscious of this and similar phenomena?’ You must answer for them. PROTARCHUS: The latter alternative is the true one. SOCRATES: Then we were not right in saying, just now, that motions going up and down cause pleasures and pains? PROTARCHUS: True. SOCRATES: A better and more unexceptionable way of speaking will be— PROTARCHUS: What? SOCRATES: If we say that the great changes produce pleasures and pains, but that the moderate and lesser ones do neither. PROTARCHUS: That, Socrates, is the more correct mode of speaking. SOCRATES: But if this be true, the life to which I was just now referring again appears. PROTARCHUS: What life? SOCRATES: The life which we affirmed to be devoid either of pain or of joy. PROTARCHUS: Very true. SOCRATES: We may assume then that there are three lives, one pleasant, one painful, and the third which is neither; what say you? PROTARCHUS: I should say as you do that there are three of them. SOCRATES: But if so, the negation of pain will not be the same with pleasure. PROTARCHUS: Certainly not. SOCRATES: Then when you hear a person saying, that always to live without pain is the pleasantest of all things, what would you understand him to mean by that statement? PROTARCHUS: I think that by pleasure he must mean the negative of pain. SOCRATES: Let us take any three things; or suppose that we embellish a little and call the first gold, the second silver, and there shall be a third which 907