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MENO: Certainly. SOCRATES: Then are there some who desire the evil and others who desire the good? Do not all men, my dear sir, desire good? MENO: I think not. SOCRATES: There are some who desire evil? MENO: Yes. SOCRATES: Do you mean that they think the evils which they desire, to be good; or do they know that they are evil and yet desire them? MENO: Both, I think. SOCRATES: And do you really imagine, Meno, that a man knows evils to be evils and desires them notwithstanding? MENO: Certainly I do. SOCRATES: And desire is of possession? MENO: Yes, of possession. SOCRATES: And does he think that the evils will do good to him who possesses them, or does he know that they will do him harm? MENO: There are some who think that the evils will do them good, and others who know that they will do them harm. SOCRATES: And, in your opinion, do those who think that they will do them good know that they are evils? MENO: Certainly not. SOCRATES: Is it not obvious that those who are ignorant of their nature do not desire them; but they desire what they suppose to be goods although they are really evils; and if they are mistaken and suppose the evils to be goods they really desire goods? MENO: Yes, in that case. SOCRATES: Well, and do those who, as you say, desire evils, and think that evils are hurtful to the possessor of them, know that they will be hurt by them? MENO: They must know it. SOCRATES: And must they not suppose that those who are hurt are miserable in proportion to the hurt which is inflicted upon them? MENO: How can it be otherwise? 304